When is it stalling? Or, a better question might be when does the OFFICIAL think it's stalling?

I've seen 12 stalling calls in 3 consecutive matches by some refs, while another official will let a top wrestler hook an ankle and hang back on the hips riding a 2-on-1 on the arm for a whole round.

One ref's stall is another ref's stalemate.

This week in a district finals, I saw one wrestler (A) shoot a succession of shots and his opponent (B) sprawled to the edge (and stepped out with one foot). Instead of going out of bounds, wrestler (A) hopped back to the middle of the 10' circle, where he promptly got called for stalling.

I will assert here that NO OTHER CALL IS MORE INCONSISTENT THAN STALLING.

Sound off!

I do believe its the refs discrection on wether or not to call stalling, it just bugs the heck out of me when the refs let the coaches influence their calls. It happened to one of our wrestlers in the finals, and he lost, simply because the other coaches were jumping up and down and yelling at the top of their lungs.

I just seems that it has been almost imposible to recieve a stall call from certain refs. Part of the problem is when they make a call. Good refs call stalling in the 1st round. Bad refs call it in the 3rd round with 30 seconds left after 3 rounds of stalling. I l talked to one ref and he said that it is one of the toughest calls because when you are on the mat you are looking for so many other things besides stalling. Maybe a solution could be that the second official during championship matches could just look specificly just for stalling.

the main problem with stalling is that ref from our are do not call stalling and the wrestlers get use to that then they get to state where stalling is called mostly right putting the wrestlers from our area at a dissavantage.

in response to the comment pertaining to the second ref calling stall warnings. that is a wonderful idea. refs have enough problems making calls. I feel that as long as the refs is consistant, that is all we can ask for.

I have offciated at the state tournament for 25 years,and even at the state tournament it is very inconsistant,even tho we get a pep talk every year to call it, when we see it. Stalling will kill wrestling, I have seen so many times, a better wrestler lose because the other wrestler stalled out and it was not called. They just have to have the guts to call it. I called stalling on a three time state champion ,he lost 2-1,I told him several times to get out of hold, he did not do it,so I had no choice..... Stalling, edging the mat, only taking a shot at the match,then stepping out when you get in trouble,it has to be called or it will kill wrestling!!!

I was matside and I have a copy of the tape for you too :-)

The GREAT officials make the tough call at the right time....the others are paralyzed by the moment, or give the benefit of the doubt--wrongly--to the bigger "name".





 

I would have to agree with the general consensus that stalling is the most inconsistent call in wrestling. Last year at State, I watched several "Untouchables" sit on a lead without ever receiving a stall warning or stall call. The same refs called first period stalls on less highly rated kids. This last weekend the biggest conflict occurred in Region 4 at 215 where an ref called the Ferriss for three stalls, awarding 4 points to the EV kid, the last 2 points coming with 10 seconds left in the match and the EV kid escaped to win 7-6. The biggest problem was the EV's kid head was on the mat at the time the last 2 calls were made. Is it stalling if the "down" wrestler is not making an effort to escape? I would love to hear from an experience referee what they are looking for besides a kid backing up all the time or sitting on another kid's hip without doing anything.

I traveled all the way from Seattle to Moses Lake to watch my brother Shawnee Hinman, 112 (KF) wrestle last weekend at regionals. Shawnee lost to Kerry Green (I think Green is a very good wrestler, so I'm not complaining,) and then Shawnee had to wrestle a kid from Oreville--who stalled the whole match. Since Shawnee was fired up to keep himself in the running for state he wrestled very hard...while the other kid just hung out and crawled out of bounds before Shawnee could put a move in. That kid didn't try to do anything accept get out of bounds, over and over and over again. The ref never even warned the kid to stop stalling and just wrestle. It was the most frustrating match I have ever had to watch. Finally in the second half of the third round the other kid finally decided to wrestle...by then Shawnee was exhausted from wrestling 100% the whole time. In the end Shawnee lost by decision. The score was close, but I can't even remember what it was. In my opinion that kid stalling like he did killed the match, but it also made me realize that he didn't really wrestle. Crawling out of bounds the whole time is not what I call a good wrestler. I think boys use stalling when they won't try to wrestle their opponent. To me it's a cop out. Hopefully at state the boys who want to actually wrestle will be able to, without having to worry about losing to someone who is merely good at stalling.

I agree with bikerman-let the wrestlers know you're on it...early!!!I think too,if at all possible,more effort should be made to get refs from other regions on differant mats-its too easy for some refs to hedge a call on a kid he's seen all thru jr. hi-to his last match @state-besides knowing some wrestlers style-whether he's a better counter wrestler oris he just waiting for a mistake!! I watched a kid go to O.T. w/a stall warning,and lost cause he took one step back reacting to a move!!!...best thing the refs can do is remember why they're there and maybe act as if it's their first match...

Could the match crowbar be talking about be the Stevens-Yamamoto match from 1990? He it is it would be nice to hear about that match and the events that led up to the stall point. I was on the other side of the dome and missed that match. I still remember the eation to that call.

Your are right on the Hinman match, but Hinman needs to be able to wrestle 100% in all three rounds he could hardly move in the third one.

Regarding James Stephens (Everett HS) vs. Thomas Yamamoto (Richland HS).

Lets setup the situation prior to the match:
Yamamoto was a 3x champion (1987@101; 1988@108; 1989@108 ) . In fact, Stephens lost to Yamamoto in the 108 pound championship finals the year before. If Yamamoto won the title, he would’ve been Washington’s FIRST 4x champion.

Prior to regionals, Yamamoto got the flu and did not reach the finals. Consequently, as he was not a regional champion he did NOT get seeded in the opposite half-bracket away from the other state placers, including Stephens. So now you have the two wrestlers who--only a year earlier wrestled for the championship-- meeting in the quarter finals.

As could be expected, the media “circus” surrounding the possibility of the state’s first FOUR-time champion was immense; News cameras and reporters were everywhere. The match was originally scheduled to be on one of the middle mats, making it difficult for people to see and cameras to get around mat side. The tournament officials asked the coaches if they would consider moving the match to a corner mat which would afford a better location for all the interested fans and media. The Everett coach agreed to move the match, with the stipulation that the tournament’s senior official referee the match, given the intense scrutiny and importance of the match. The tournament officials arranged for the move and the official.

Yamamoto wore the bi-colored, gold upper and green lower Richland Bomber uniform, black Asics and two black neoprene knee pads. Stephens wore the navy Seagull singlet with gold edging. They were wrestling on the gold Fife HS mat, with navy blue stripes. Maybe it was a sign of things to come....

ROUND ONE:
----------------------------
The match starts with Stephens quickly mounting an offensive, shooting a single to his right, then a re-shot high inside on the left. Yamamoto retreats out of bounds.

They start again and Yamamoto circles to his right. Again Stephens shoots a single to his right. Yamamoto sprawls and Stephens comes up to the under hook on the left and shoot another single. Again, Yamamoto backs out of bounds.

The referee calls stalling on the Richland wrestler.

The wrestlers start in the middle and Yamamoto makes a shot—his first--on the whistle: a quick, short, low attack. Stephens sprawls and takes the front head lock. He reaches under for the single and as Yamamoto pulls on Stephens’ right elbow, the Everett wrestler attempts a knee tap. Yamamoto pulls down the elbow and tries to duck under and sit through unsuccessfully and the two break free.

Stephens shoots another double leg and the two go out of bounds.
Again the referee brings the two to the middle. Yamamoto tries a high inside on his left, Stephens sprawls and re-shoots a high inside of his own. Yamamoto stops him, then shoots another single—Stephens sprawls and catches the front head lock. Yamamoto attempts to reverse hook both elbows and sit through, then re-drags the elbow to a standing position. Stephens shoots one double, then another, and Yamamoto goes out of bounds to end the match.

ROUND TWO:
choice: Stephens= "Defer"
Yamamoto chooses down
----------------------------
Stephens starts with a freestyle start and immediately “cuts” loose the Richland wrestler for the first score of the match: Yamamoto 1 point escape. Now on their feet, Yamamoto circles both left and right on the line of the ten foot circle.

Stephens hits Yamamoto sharply with hard hands and shoots a fireman’s that is so deep he loses the arm and easily Yamamoto goes over him. With Stephens’ behind, he shoots a single and picks up Yamamoto’s left leg high to his chest. Yamamoto hops out of bounds and the referee calls him for stalling= 1 point Stephens.

The score is tied 1 to 1.

They start again on their feet. The match is stopped temporarily when Stephens’ head gear comes off. Restarting, Stephens quickly shoots a single on his right. Yamamoto tries to spin behind and Stephens tries a high inside on the other side. Yamamoto circles to the edge and tries a high inside toward the middle. Stephens steps back and tries to bring the match back to the center as the two are tied up. Stephens controls Yamamoto’s right elbow and attempts another high inside. Yamamoto sprawls and Stephens is extended, head down on the mat as Yamamoto grabs the rear ankle and tries to spin behind. The timer calls out 30 seconds. Stephens locks his hands and holds on. Yamamoto tries to spin, pulls on the ankle and they stay locked for nearly 15 seconds. The referee calls stalemate.

Starting in the middle again, Stephens hits a DEEP double leg--Yamamoto fights to the edge and time is called.

Score 1 to 1

ROUND THREE:
Stephens chooses down position
----------------------------
On the whistle Yamamoto grabs Stephens’ left ankle, pulling it to his thigh and trapping the leg up. Stephens gets it out and Yamamoto repeats it—trapping the foot—while riding the tight waist. The referee verbally cautions him while they continue wrestling. Yamamoto goes to the right ankle, lifts it and holds on. As the referee is giving a visual hand count for the time he’s holding the ankle, Yamamoto picks up the left ankle and tries to lace ride, and the two go out of bounds.

On the whistle Stephens attempts a stand-up. Yamamoto picks up the left ankle and comes up with Stephens, bringing the foot up high in the air while he performs a beautiful kick-out of post foot, sending Stephens crashing to the mat. Yamamoto keeps the left ankle and again tries to trap it. The referee is now more animated with his counting as Yamamoto continues to hold the ankle. Breaking down Stephens flat, he keeps the tight waist and ankle—the referee counts again louder and with bigger sweeping counts of his arm. Stephens continues to try to get up and Yamamoto keeps holding it as his head gear comes off. The referee stops the match and gives Yamamoto another stalling call.

Score: Stephens 2 – Yamamoto 1.

With approximately 10 seconds left, Stephens tries a standup, a switch and a sit-out. Yamamoto stayed behind him and kept him down (but never touched the ankle) to end the match.

FINAL SCORE: Stephens 2 Yamamoto 1

Amongst the booing spectators a dejected warrior walks to the center of the mat and graciously shakes Stephens hand as the Richland coach yells to the referee “How do you feel ref!?”

Unfortunately, the referee was harassed and threatened, not just at the restaurant he ate at that night, but for years to come, by the people upset with the decision.
 

Yes, that was the match. As I was walking off the mat,after the first session, The 3A director,(forget name), came up to me and said,"I want you to officiate the match,between Steven & Yamamoto". It was only the quarter finales,but I guess Yamamoto was sick and took 4th at the region.
I remember, giving Yamamoto a stall warning the 1st round but if I remember no points were scored.
2nd round Yamamoto was down, he escaped for 1,Stevens was being aggressive,Yamamoto kept backing up, Stevens got a leg,Yamamoto backed off the mat,out of bounds,I called him for going off the mat, 1pt Stevens match tied up. 3rd round,Yamamoto road Stevens the whole 3rd rd with an over and under with his head in Stevens lap, I told Yamamoto, at least 3 times that he would have to improve his ride, he did not do it, so I had know choich ,but to ding him for stalling,he lost 2-1.
I will never forget that week-end, coaches were yelling and screaming, people and fans were yelling and screaming, his father came up to me the next mourning at breakfast,asking me if I had ever done a state tournament before, I told him about 20, he finally left after several more questions, but he was never real mean
unlike some of the coaches, who got in my face ,as they were yelling at me ,spit was comming out there mouth.
I would do it again tho,even tho there is a little grief,just because you were a three time state champion should you be able to coast to a 4th. I only have to live with myself!!!!
 

Thanks for the overview. I remember the booing when the ref's name was anounced. I had two friends watch the match who I respected. They both thought it was unfortunate that the match was decided by a stall point, but thought it was the correct call. The only other referee call that can compare was the Shadle Park- Mercer Island state basketball final of 1981 when a last second shot by Shadle Park was counted. They still count it a win at Mercer Island.

This is sort of off the subject but I have always thought that 115 that year had as much talent as any weight in a long time. The best match that year was the final between Stevens and Tim Kitchen. If I remember right Stevens won it with a last second take down. The guy who took 5th that same year was Kevin Roberts who would go on to be an all-american at Oregon.

i like your response and would hope you would teach other ref to see what you see. i am proud that you would take the time to warn the wrestler verably and then inforce the rule. my son lost at state because of a ref that would call staling with a leg wrap and was holding on on top for 2 rounds but with 15 seconds to go he decided to warn the top wrestler. it is a shame that the rule is so vague and we can not come to a 5-10 second count then it should be called. most refs know it's staling but don't have the guts to call but your maybe the exception.

Vivid, very vivid. Call the stall or stalemate. Force the action and make our sport more interesting. We all know stall holds and actions. Juat have the guts to call it.

Bikerman---
excellent memory

Stephens wrestled Wilson's Tim Kitchen (now coaching at Port Angeles) in the finals. In the 3rd round, Kitchen got 2 takedowns in less than 10 seconds (snap and spin) to tie the match and put it into overtime....No disrespect to Timmy, but Stephens was emotionally drained after the Yamamoto match.

In the overtime match (the old days: 3, 1-minute rounds) Stephens got a takedown in the last seconds of the 3rd round to earn the win and 115 pound State Championship.